mandela. there were others like tom brokaw and any number i can use, can name, but i think that it took many of us who had been partly -- part of a civil rights movement and fought against jim crow, which is our apartheid in america. we appreciated someone who was rising above the situation in south africa so the world could know. for many years their struggle was going on and nobody was listening. >> absolutely. you wrote in your piece on nelson mandela to the very end, he was frail and somewhat forgiveful and remained the father of the nation for south africans and in several trips he made to the hospital over the past two years, he was in his own way preparing his family biological and extended, for his final return home. he was 95. we know this life is not permanent in this form here. when you -- the news broke, despite his age and despite knowing his health situation, no one wanted to let him go for what he represented, even though that continues as he's passed away. >> i think so many pe